Marketing for Smart People
You have a list, and you email it. That’s the whole marketing plan. Meanwhile, somewhere on that list is a buyer who ignores every email you send but would have said yes to a postcard, and another one who would have listened to a recorded message on their phone all the way through. They never hear from you in the way they actually buy, so as far as your business is concerned, they don’t exist.
That’s the gap Dave Wood attacks in this session of the Classic Costa Rica Intensive. It isn’t a lesson about a secret traffic source. It’s a lesson about doing intelligent things with the people you already have: reaching them through the phone and the mailbox as well as the inbox, treating buyer information like the asset it is, and multiplying your reach through partnerships instead of raw personal grind.
Why is marketing through one channel leaving money on the table?
Dave starts with a habit most marketers never question. They get a customer, and from that day forward they market to that customer exactly one way, usually email. His counterpoint is that people buy in different ways, and every channel you ignore is a set of buyers you quietly abandon. That’s why he liked systems that captured a customer’s full information, phone number, address, and all, because an address opens up a whole form of marketing and a phone number opens up another one.
Most people, what do they do? They get a customer and they just market to them in one way. People buy in different ways. So if you’re only marketing on the email, but somebody’s only going to buy if they get something in the mail, or if they get a phone call, you’re just losing money. It’s one of the ways that I recruit more from less leads than a lot of big people in the industry do. With less work.
He backs it with a story from a product launch he promoted. His list was a fraction of the size of the big players’ lists, three or four times smaller than some, yet he finished within one sale of people far above his weight class. They reached out one way. He reached out in several. And by his own account, if he had added a direct mail campaign on top, it wouldn’t have been close.
How does voice broadcasting work without making people hate you?
Here’s Dave’s core method. When somebody buys, they go onto a customer or team list. Every week or two, he records a training, then sends a voice broadcast to that list with what’s called a press one transfer: the person answers, hears a short live message, and presses one to be transferred straight into the recording. His team members thanked him for those calls, because the messages led with something worth hearing.
Then there’s the version almost nobody had seen him do. Using a cheap service called Simple Voice Center, which gives you a phone number where callers can hear an unlimited-length recording as many times as they want, he uploaded a full recorded sales presentation, an interview he’d done with Mark Hoverson about information products. He broadcast to his list with press one transfer, and 700 people sat through a sales presentation on their phones that never had to be live. He sold around thirty units of the product that way and landed near the top of the launch leaderboard against those much bigger lists. The economics are the reason to pay attention: at the time, sending roughly 15,000 messages cost him about $150, and he started using the method back when he had only about a hundred phone numbers. If you have a hundred leads registered for a webinar, you are never going to call all hundred, no matter what you tell yourself. A broadcast reminder, he says, will triple your attendance.
The method comes with rules, and he learned some of them the painful way:
- Only broadcast to people who opted in. Sending to residential numbers that never opted in can get you fined; businesses are the exception.
- Put an opt-out on the live message, a press eight to be removed. Expect two to three percent of the people who pick up to use it each time.
- Record a second version for answering machines that gives a simple callback number, repeated, because nobody can press one on a voicemail.
- Never send from your personal number. Dave did once and still had angry voicemails to show for it. Set the system to simply hang up at the end.
- Lead with value, then sell. Every time. That’s the only reason people keep listening to the next broadcast.
Two structural details finish the system. If your recorded presentation runs an hour, give the call to action and the website at about five minutes, forty-five minutes, and fifty-five minutes, a rhythm Dave picked up from Alex Mandossian, because plenty of listeners bail early and would otherwise never hear where to go. And any website you say out loud must be simple enough that a child could spell it. Even workwithdavidwood.com is too long for a voice message.
Why should you treat buyer addresses like gold?
Dave’s rule: every customer address goes into a file, a spreadsheet, some kind of system, and you never lose it, even if the customer goes inactive. Buyers buy again and again, and he cites testing by Ryan Deiss showing an outsized share of sales coming from existing buyers; in Dave’s experience, when you launch a product, around two-thirds of the response comes from people who already bought from you. That’s also why he keeps a buyer list separate from his regular autoresponder, moved there automatically at the moment of purchase, so he can market to buyers as their own audience.
Then he does what almost nobody in the niche does: he mails them. His most successful campaign ever was a personalized card sent to everyone who had bought an article marketing tool from him. The card thanked them for the purchase and offered a bonus in big letters, a free training at a website with a name nobody could forget: sponsorheavyhitters.com. He sent 800 cards, got 700 opt-ins, and the training itself was pure value with a single call to action at the end, pointing viewers to the presentation for the company he’d chosen to work with. Sixty people joined, on autopilot, without a single phone call. He ran the same play again when he was brand new in his next company and personally enrolled fifty people with it. Mailing isn’t free, a couple hundred dollars when his database was small, around a thousand dollars per mailing once it grew, so his rule is to only mail an offer you already know converts. And for the ambitious, he points at long-form sales letters: nobody in the niche sends them, marketers outside the niche use them to great effect, and the people who read a thirty-page letter from someone they’ve bought from before are precisely the buyers you want reading. Good direct mail services can even run like a paper autoresponder, triggering a piece at week one, week two, one month, and six months after a purchase, all automatically.
Why do smart marketers stop trying to do everything alone?
The second half of the session widens the same principle from channels to people. Dave shares a lesson he took from John Maxwell, off an old Amway tape: if your natural skill in an area is a one out of ten, a lifetime of hard work might move you to a three or four, and a four doesn’t command much in any trade. But if you’re naturally a seven, that same work makes you a nine or ten, the top of the field. So you build on your strengths, and you partner or outsource for your weaknesses instead of grinding at them.
That’s what the joint ventures dominating the niche actually are. One software team he’d worked with paired a closer, a programmer, a split-tester, and a detail-obsessed manager, because the closer couldn’t program and the programmer couldn’t close. The biggest lead system in the industry ran on three men: a believable face on camera, a hype-and-copywriting engine, and a programmer, paying affiliates thirty to forty percent while a great product kept members promoting. Magnetic Sponsoring was a copywriter joined by a partner who knew how to scale what the copywriter had built. And outside the niche, a circle of marketers with big lists simply promote each other’s launches, so each member effectively wields the combined list of the whole group. That, Dave says, is how a handful of people end up controlling every niche.
You don’t need a big list to start the same ladder. Three people with 150 subscribers each who agree to promote each other’s launches are each marketing to 450. That success lets you approach partners at the next level up, and the level after that. And the fastest way to attract partners with big lists is the theme of this whole course: own a system that converts, is proven, and is profitable, because a person with a large audience would rather plug into your working machine than build their own.
What should you actually set up this week?
One warning holds it all together: the more expensive the marketing, the higher-converting the offer has to be, and it should bring money in immediately unless you have very deep pockets. If a campaign is a waste, stop it, change something, and test again until something works, then keep doing that. As Dave says about process in general, the best one is the one nobody else is doing, and right now, in this niche, almost nobody is doing any of this.
This is one session out of the full Classic Costa Rica Intensive, where Dave goes deeper on funnels, systems, and the traffic strategies these campaigns feed. If you’re new to it, the entire Classic Costa Rica Intensive, this lesson included, is available at the Classic Costa Rica Intensive.
Your assignment: pull your buyer list together in one file this week, then reach it through one channel you’ve never used, a voice broadcast to your opted-in phone numbers or a thank-you card with one simple link. Dave budgets about ninety minutes to set up a broadcast from scratch. Give value first, make one offer at the end, and stop marketing to every buyer as if email is the only door they answer.
Full lesson transcript
Lightly edited from the original recording — fillers removed, nothing added. Income disclaimer.
When you get a customer of different things, if you can, it's a good idea to get as much of the info from the customer as possible, right? Like one of the things I've liked about My Lead System Pro that's a real positive towards it is when you get a customer, you have access to their phone number, their address, zip code, all that stuff. Well, if you have somebody's address, it opens up a whole new form of marketing, doesn't it? If you have their phone number, it opens up a whole new form of marketing, right? You voice broadcast them again and again until they unsubscribe or buy or die, and then you're broadcasting to the house that doesn't have anybody in it anymore, right?
If they get your phone number, right? So I'm LSP. I've liked that because you get contact info from everybody, right? There's some affiliate products as well. If you sell a lot, the owners will work with you.
Like the article dealio, you know? I got all the addresses from everybody that ever bought that article submitter from me. It's like 1,500 of them. That's a good response of direct mail list. I've mailed them and made a bunch of money before, right?
If you get somebody's address, you could do direct mail. Nobody in the industry does direct mail, you know? I'm not good at it yet, and I still make money, you know, every time I do it, you know? But it's not cold, all right? So let me give you some resources that I've used for different kinds of marketing.
Number one, voice broadcasting, okay? And let me tell you how I use this personally, and I'll tell you things I've done. Anybody here got the spam voice messages before and, like, been like, gosh, how do I delete my phone number out of this thing so it never gets called again, right? Well, how many of you, though, have got a message from me and you've liked it, right? At least once where you've called in and listened to a message, right?
A lot of my team, they thank me for those things. Because what I do is a little bit different. What I do is when somebody buys something, they go on to, like, a customer or a team list, right? And I do something where I record usually a training once a week or once every other week, and I do a voice broadcast. And I do a voice broadcast to the list, okay, with what's called a press one transfer option, okay?
Press one transfer. And then what happens is they press one and transfer in to listen to the training on their phone, right? Well, you know, I'm going to teach you guys something that nobody has done anywhere I've ever seen but me, all right? That I've sold a lot of crap through this, all right? It's unbelievable, actually, and I just don't share it generally.
There's only a few people who have a big enough list to really capitalize it. Lawrence, you could. Dave Sharp could do it. You know what I mean? I don't know if anybody in here has a big list.
But what I do is you can record a sales presentation. I use a thing called simplevoicecenter.com. I don't even have an affiliate link for this. Simplevoicecenter.com. They give you a phone number.
You can record. Anybody in here ever used a sizzle call in network marketing before? Seven-minute sizzle call. Well, you can record that. You can record an unlimited-length message and upload it to this, and then when somebody calls it, they can listen to your message, right?
Well, who in here has been on a live conference call where you've been sold something, right? Well, with Mark Hoverson's launch, I'll give you an example. I recorded a sales presentation with Mark Hoverson, right? Audio, right? It was an audio sales presentation.
I took my phone numbers for my list. I broadcast with press one transfer. And when they pushed one, went to the sales presentation. Got 700 people to listen to a sales presentation on the phone. Didn't even have to be live.
Pretty efficient. You know what I mean? That's something that's worked amazingly well for me. Actually, I've done this several times and recruited, like, 50 people in a few days. But it's just, it's not teachable to most people who don't have lists.
Does that make sense? Because if you do it to cold prospects, it'll work. But just not very efficiently. You have to have a little bit of a bigger front end. But if you've got a customer database, it'll cost me about $150 to send about 15,000 messages or so.
Right? Both. Right? You can do that with any amount of phone leads. Because it's cheap.
Because if you do 100, you know, you have 1,500 leads, you've probably got, I bet you've got 300. If you send a voice broadcast and remind people about your webinars, it'll triple your attendance. Because they're already on your list. They already know you. It's not spammy.
Some people will think it's spammy. Now, here's some mistakes I've made with this. When I first did it, I wanted to talk to people. So I sent void broadcasts from my own phone number. I still have unanswered, angry voicemails.
Right? So what you do, there's a few things that are really important to doing voice broadcasts. Number one, don't do it to people that are not opt-ins, unless they're businesses only. Because sending voice broadcasts to residential homes that have not opted in, you can get fined. All right?
If somebody's an opt-in, it's fine. All right? You always have to have an opt-out option on the live message. Right? Which is built into the software.
And I'll give you guys some examples of how you could do this later. You have to have a push 8 to be removed from the list. All right? If you want to be removed. It's fine.
I won't call you anymore. But I'd push 1 right now. To listen to my message. Go ahead and push 1. Yeah, yeah.
It was good, wasn't it? You're like, and then people forget what they're supposed to push and hit 1. Dang it, I got foiled. Right? But you've got to have the opt-out on the live message.
All right? Or you could get in trouble. You probably won't get in trouble. Unless you're sending millions of them. Right?
You could get in trouble. So it's better to have the opt-out. Does that make sense to everybody? Okay. So let me give you a couple of different examples of using this.
And this literally takes about 15 minutes to do. It's super easy. Ola, you could do it. Right? I don't know if you've done it before.
You've got a big enough list where it would be useful. Right? And this is what, this is a couple of examples of things that I've done. Let me give you an example of like a sales presentation. All right?
That you can do over an audio. You can upload it to Simple Voice Center. They don't have an affiliate program. It's just ultra cheap. And it's unlimited.
People can call into that number all day and night. And listen to it again and again and again and again and again and again. As long as you leave the message up there. All right? So what I've done is things like this.
Right? I record a message. Get on my computer. I say, hey there my friend. This is Dave Wood.
Look. I wanted to send this message out. I know you hate these things. But I've got something when you hit one that's going to blow your mind. I actually got Mark Hoverson on the line.
A 37 minute interview on how you can make a fortune in your own information products. Now if you want to you can hit A to be removed from the list. But what I would do is hit one now to listen to this 37 minutes of just pure gold to show you how to make an absolute fortune in the information marketing business. Hit one now and I'll talk to you in a second. Right?
Have the opt out in there. It's just so unconscious that they skip over it. Right? Because I'd rather they hit one. But you still get about, I get about 2 or 3 percent opt out of live messages every time.
Right? So if I send out a thousand of them, you know, what's that? You know, 20. 20 opt outs or something like that. People who pick up.
You also record a version for the answering machine. Right? And the answering machine, what you do is you tell them to call the phone number. Right? Because remember they can't hit one from an answering machine.
That would be very confusing if somebody gets it. Right? Hit one. It's not working. Stupid thing's not working.
You know? You've done that probably? I've got them a lot. Go ahead and hit one now. I'm like, dude, this is an answering message.
Right? You know? So there's two versions. You could upload this in LeadNet Pro. All right.
And the answering machine, right, you have them call the number. My, I have two of these numbers, 951, if anybody wanted to listen to the Mark Hover one, 262-3562. If you want to listen to the example of this, and you could use it for selling anything. I don't use it too often because then people hate your guts. Right?
If you do it once or twice a month, people like it actually. If you're not, if you're just giving them info. And the key here is you're, you know, in whatever this is, have value and then sell. Value and then sell. Value and then sell, because then there's actually some positive reason for them to continue to listen to the messages every time you send one out.
Right? Value and then sell. Value and then sell. Right? So you can listen to this.
You can listen to the Mark Hoverson message I did as an example of this, and I actually sold about 30 of his information blueprint doing this. Pretty cool. Got me into the top six or seven or something. I think. Maybe at the top ten.
Barely, you know, with all the people that hopped on last who have lists three times the size of mine. Right? Does that make sense to everybody so far? So let me give you an example of the message. On various ones, yeah.
Yeah, not everything. But I have different opt-on forms with different calls to action. Mostly I just request email and then later they can opt in with more info. So there's stages where I actually do get their phone number. Does that make sense?
Okay. I like to capture more on the front end and then get them to give more info. You know, like something you could do with my phone room as an example, okay, is you could request only an email on the front end so a lot of people request information. Right? And then what you can do is later in your funnel you could say request a call, have a little button.
Then they could open up in a new window and then that could go directly to my phone room and they just call your lead. So you're still capturing more opt-ins but you're getting the people who want to be called to be called. Right? It's an option. That work, right, Lawrence?
Yeah. Yeah. So value, sell. Now what's the example of the answering machine message? Really simple.
Same thing. Hey there, buddy. Sorry I missed you. Want to give you a call. Let you know about a message I just recorded with Mark Hoverson.
It's recorded on this number. So pull out a pen. You could re-listen to this message again and again. It's also on your caller ID. Same number.
951-262-3562. Write that down again. It's 951-262-3562. It's 37 minutes. Pure gold info.
I could not believe you gave it away for free. So right when you hang up the phone, look at your caller ID. If you don't have it for some reason, pull out a pen, listen to the message again and call 951-262-3562. It'll blow you away. Right?
So now, I'm going to show you how to do this. I'm going to show you how to do this. I'm going to show you how to do this. So now, I'm not leaving my personal number because then they'll call and say, hello, Dave. I mean, I'm – you know, thanks for calling.
You know? Oh, god. Kill you. Right? But what this does, Simple Voice Center, you can set it to where at the end of the sales message it just hangs up.
No messages. Right? Because I won't – you know, it's not going to be a great thing. It's going to be a great thing. It's going to be a great thing.
So you're going to have to be careful. But what this does, a simple voice center, you can set it to where at the end of the sales message it just hangs up. No messages, right? Because I won't call them. Does that make sense though?
Now if you're recording an audio presentation, and you could use this in any replicated funnel, it's important to have at least three call to actions. In an audio you need, or a webinar, you need to tell people where to go and what to do at about five minutes, 45 minutes, and 55 minutes if it's an hour long presentation. If it's 30 minutes, you still need one at five minutes. Because what happens is, is sometimes people just want to know what to do right in the beginning of the call. And they'll leave the call halfway through without knowing where to go.
So you give them the website to go to, right? Five minutes, 45, 55 minutes. I learned that from Alex Mandozian who's, this is what he does, is optimize his conference calls. Right? This is brilliant.
Do you ever use voice broadcasting like that, Dave? Record a sales message, press one transfer message into the sales message? That's brilliant. Works like magic. Works like magic.
You can get 600 people to listen to a conference. I could get, actually right now I could get about 1,000 people to listen to a conference call. Right? I don't. Personally.
Because I think, I think it's annoying. So I just, and honestly it works. I just think it's annoying so I don't do it. But when you're newer, I would have done it. Absolutely.
You know? I don't think anything's wrong with it. I don't. Repeat the questions. Huh?
Repeat the questions. Oh, repeat the questions. Right, right, right. So he asked, do you ever use the numbers that you scrape from LeadNet Pro to do voice broadcast? And the answer is I don't.
Yeah. Because I think it's annoying. So I found this a useful resource for voice broadcasting. Simple voice centers, how I do those automated recorded messages. Okay?
It's real cheap. You can get an 800 number too, but don't. There's no need. People will call the number they have to pay for just as much as an 800 number. It's totally useless.
And then in Canada and Alaska, they can't call it. So if you have any leads there, they can't get transferred in. It won't connect. Right? A few hundred phone numbers.
A few hundred phone numbers. Absolutely. Yeah. I'd do it. I started doing it when I had about 100 phone numbers.
Well, yeah. Think about it like this. Let's say you have 100 leads and you're doing a webinar. And you know more people will show up if they get a call. And there's no way in hell you're going to call 100 people.
You can pretend all day, but there's just no way. Voice broadcast. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Now, it's real important, real important if you're given a website on a voice message that the website is simple. Right? Like, let's say you got a complicated, like, what's your last name again, Dil? Like that. Huh?
What? I can't even say that. So if that's his website, if that's in his website, do not leave that in a message. Right? It needs to be like getmoremoney.com or something like that.
You know? 15k per person. 15k per week.com. I'm going to show you how to make 15,000 bucks a week. 15k per week.
That's one five k, letter k, per week.com. Right? It must be short and simple. Even workwithdavidwood.com is too long for a voice message. Right?
And MLM, Global Takeover, people will misspell it. Simpleness. Remember, a child could spell it. I have what? I have.
That's great. I have bignews.com is what he said for the camera. I have bignews.com. The number on the colorid.com. That's actually pretty good.
Really. Now that's brilliant. Oh yeah, absolutely. So that's, I just learned something I'm going to use tomorrow. I'm going to spam everybody.
Yeah. No, no, this is the phone number I got. I paid for this. They give you your own phone number. This, when they call it, they just hear, they just hear the recording.
Do I do text messaging? I don't. Text broadcast. People got to opt in for text messages. You got to be real careful with that.
Right? Is that helpful though? Help you, Angela? Yeah. Right?
Even if you got a product, right? Or let's say you want to do a weekly training, to give an example, and you don't want to be on a live webinar. You can record a weekly training, put it on an audio, and voice broadcast it to everybody and always sell something at the end. Always. Because why would you sit there for an hour?
And not recommend a resource for them to buy? The weekly recommended resource is getinfonow.com. Go there and buy. You know? I want to tell you about a new marketing technique that you can use to get more people into your business now.
It's called voice broadcasting. That's the training of the week on how to do it. Let me show you what I use for voice broadcasting. Go to leadnetpro.com forward slash David Wood and buy. Yeah.
Always put it in there. Because you know what? If 500 people are calling into the number, somebody's going to go to the site and buy it. You know what I mean? And other people don't mind.
They're like, I don't feel like doing that. Okay. Whatever. No big deal, man. Buy the next week's resource.
Right, Dave? Right? So these are some things that I do. That's an example. So we got voice broadcasting.
I'm going to show you what I've used. Another thing I've used, let me erase this really quick. What's what? Oh, if it's an hour long sales presentation on the phone, you have a call to action at five minutes, 45 and 55 minutes. You need one in the beginning, right?
Because people will just want the website. And they'll hang up and they will never hear the website at the end. But if you give it to them in the beginning, they'll say, oh, go check it out. And they'll write it down. They'll go check it out.
It's another thing I've used that I've used personally to recruit a lot of people is send out cards. Now, I think there's better ways to do direct mail than send out cards personally. But I haven't done it, right? You can send long form sales letters. But if you want to send out cards, here's my website, 85505, sendoutcards.com forward slash 85505.
It's my ID. But what I've used send out cards for is customer mailings, right? And here's what I've used it for is a couple times a year. It's expensive now because I've got a big address database. So I won't do it unless there's something that's converting because it's expensive.
It's like $1,000 per mailing to send the card to everybody at least, right? At the beginning, though, it was a couple hundred bucks, so I was like, yeah, whatever, right? But what I do is. I get a converting offer, right? Let's say the LeadNet Pro thing.
Let's say you got it. It's converting at a certain level. You broadcast it to everybody. And now what you do is you say, I'm going to mail this to everybody. You can upload your customers, customer addresses, personalize the cards, right?
And again, there's other ways to do this other than send out cards. But it works. You know? And then you need a big fat link to go to in the card, right? I'll tell you one of the most successful campaigns I ever did was send out cards.
It was when I was in iLearning Global before Numis. I actually did this in Numis, too. I recruited 50 people doing this into Numis, right, when I was new. I got into Numis, did a crazy thing, got a ton of people in, and then I took all my customer database and I mailed them with a link to look at a presentation. All right?
But my most successful campaign ever was in iLearning Global, and here's what I did. I sold all that article marketing product, right? I got the addresses. Because, guys, a buyer address, you got to keep those, okay, in a file, organizer, CSV, whatever it is, some sort of system. You must keep your customer addresses.
They will buy again and again and again and again. If you do a launch on a product. Two-thirds of the money are going to come from existing customers almost every time. Yeah. You need your customer addresses.
Even if they're not active, you need them, all right? So what I did was I sent out a card. I said, I just want to thank you for your purchase of the automatic article submitter, right? That's how Ola got on my list originally, right? I wanted to give you a bonus for buying the product.
I just recorded a training on how I've been recruiting a ton of heavy hitters. I've been recruiting a ton of heavy hitters into my business. Go to this website now, had a colon, and then it said sponsorheavyhitters.com, okay? Sent out 800 cards, got 700 opt-ins, joining iLearning Global, recruited 60 people. Yeah.
So what I did, what I did was in the card, I had big, big letters in the beginning, sponsorheavyhitters.com, said. Success, had a little picture of me smiling at the beach, right? Dave Wood, right? Had my phone number on there because I used to give that out back in the day. Now I'd put somebody else's phone number in there in my downline or something.
Who loves phones, right? But the thing is, right, I got 700 opt-ins, and then here's what I did. It was only a valuable presentation. It was only a training. It was literally just a training.
But what was the call to action at the end of the training? If you want to work with me directly, and you want something that heavy hitters will actually join, click on the link below this video and look at the presentation for the company I chose to work with, because one of the reasons they're joining is because my company doesn't suck, right? Click on the link now, right? So then they clicked from the free training into the company presentation, and on autopilot, I had 60 people join. No phone calls.
Right? It's just something I've done. So it's been a useful resource to me because it's personalizable, and I think send out cards is like 500 bucks to join or something. I think they have a cheaper option too if you want to use it. I honestly never, I've never even sold one of them.
Huh? I've never bothered. They do? What's the cheapest one? 200 bucks.
200 bucks. You could do it. Now there's better ways, honestly, to do direct mail if you're going to be serious about it. Dan Kennedy has some resources, but I haven't done any of that yet, so I can't teach you how to make like long form sales letters in direct mail and do it because I don't even know how. I don't know resources to do it.
I've never done it. Right? But I'm going to in the future. Expensive stuff. 30 page letter.
You can do that in send out cards. With cards, but they don't do other forms of direct mail. I don't know who does that, but Mike Dillard has some resources on it and a couple products I can look up for you. Huh? Well, you know, and again, with cards you can do it.
With long form. That's something nobody in this niche is doing. Nobody is sending long form sales letters to their customer base. Nobody. Not even, I think Dillard's done it once or twice, right?
Yeah, I've got. Nobody else. And I'll tell you. Yeah, well Frank Kern makes a lot of money doing it. Because I'll tell you what happens.
Somebody gets a 30 page letter in the mail. Who knows you? Who's a customer and has bought something? I'll tell you. The ones with money, what do they do?
They read it. The poor ones, they throw it away. Who knows you? Who do you want reading it? Smart people read stuff because they're like, I'm going to get some copy tricks out of this.
And then they get suckered in. The affiliate system that I'm installing is on my personal blog, is Delavo, but it's more complex and you need somebody who knows how to install it to get it to work. But I'll give you guys more information on that one after I test it. You can do some really weird stuff with that. I'm trying to think.
I had a couple of more that I was going to cover here. Here's the important point though. Most people, what do they do? They get a customer and they just market to them in one way. People buy in different ways.
So if you're only marketing on the email but somebody's only going to buy if they get something in the mail. Or if they get a phone call. You're just losing money. It's one of the ways that I recruit more from less leads than a lot of big people in the industry do. With less work.
And this stuff takes no time. How long do you think it takes me to set up a voice broadcast? I got to record a sales message, number one. Number two, I got to record a 30 second live message. Number three, I got to record a 30 second answering machine message.
So total. And then I got to upload them. So total of maybe an hour and a half. I bet if I sent one out about LeadNet Pro, I'd make five grand. I'm going to do that.
Not a bad idea, right? I haven't even thought of that until now, right? So I've used that. Reach out to them in multiple ways, right? And you can have systems for the direct mail.
Now, I don't know how to do a lot of this and send out cards is a pain with systems because they don't want anything to be automated. So you can send things to people all personalized in bulk. But it's really difficult to send out. Like, you know, you get a customer, they automatically get a card. You can't do that with them.
But with good direct mail services, and you could just look around if you really want to get into it, you could set it up to where you get a purchase, right? And just like an email autoresponder, somebody gets a direct mail piece week one, week two, and then they could get one in one month, six months, all selling different products. And you could just set it up on autopilot. Once you got some things in play. And nobody in the industry is doing this and a lot of people who make a lot of money outside the niche are, and it works, right?
Systems, right? Helping? Okay. Any questions on any of this stuff? Okay, cool.
Another thing is that's important with just resources is there's automated ways to do what I'm going to tell you right now too. But there's structured ways to do it as well where you need a customer list that's separate from your, we were talking about this the other day, you need a customer list that's separate from your regular autoresponders. And what I use to upload customers to is eye contact, okay? Now the unfortunate thing is it's manual and that's the thing that I hate about it because if you got like 15 products, right, now you can set this up automated with your own products, all right? Okay?
You can do it with products that do it for you. But if you've got your own product, what you can do is you can make it so when somebody buys, they automatically go to another autoresponder. You can do it with Aweber, you can do it with any affiliate software, you can do it, right? You need a customer database of people who have bought because why? They buy more than anybody else on your list.
Ryan Dice did testing on that and he found that like it was like a ridiculous amount of the sales came from that. Right? And that's what I've found so I voice broadcast my list of buyers all the time because they keep coming and hanging out and getting stuff that I find useful. Give you a couple of examples, Mark Hoverson's product, right? I don't have a list nearly as big as most of those people in the top 10, not close, right?
Not nearly as big as MLSP people. My list is, their list is three times, four times the size of mine. But I was like within one sale of them. How? They're reaching out in one way, I'm reaching out in multiple ways.
If I'd done a direct mail campaign, I would've just smashed them, right? Because most people don't do that stuff. So you reach out in multiple ways but make sure if you're advertising, the more expensive your advertising is, right? Okay. The higher converting your offer has to be and it must be something you're getting money for immediately unless you've got really deep pockets if you want to continue to do it.
If you want to just be like, you know, IBM and spend money on bullshit, you can, you know, but it's not smart. And what do we do in network marketing? We spend money on bullshit all the time, all day and night, you know? I'll just spend more money and I'm going to get rich, huh? No, won't work, right?
And now that you know that. You're not going to be in the dark, right? If you spend money and it's a waste, stop it, right? And spend money on something a little different and if that's a waste, it's no big deal but if you keep doing that and changing it, you're going to find something that's working and that's what you keep doing, right? That make sense?
Okay. So let's cover some things for product ideas for people. Who wants to come up with some product ideas? Ideas for products. You're good at being on the phone.
Live prospecting recordings, right? People love that stuff because they think they need to be on the phone, right? How to influence people, right? Now here's the thing with products, all right? The less specific it is, the harder it is to sell, okay?
Less specific equals harder to sell. So for example, now it's harder to sell but there's also sometimes a bigger potential market too. So sometimes you got to have a little bit deeper pockets to go with less specific stuff. So for example, what's easier to sell? Just as far as the ease.
How to set up a sales funnel with your own information product from day one using nothing but WordPress or how to be more happy and joyful in life, you know what I mean? The happy and joyful in life product is a little bit difficult to sell. Now Tony Robbins sells stuff like this. He sells stuff like this all day and night but that's because he's got magical powers. People like, let's look at a JV model, all right?
That a couple of successful ones and this is the purpose to have you guys do it and kind of fumble around and then have you start forming discussions and just thinking about it and then looking, you know, who can I really JV with? Even new. Let's say you got 50 people on your list. You got 40 people on your list and let's say you got, let's say you got 100, you got 100. Well all three together have 150.
So you say, shoot, I'm doing a product launch. Can you guys pump in? Now all of a sudden you're emailing, he's emailing and she's emailing. People are like, crap, I'm getting three emails about this thing, right? So now you have the list power of 150 rather than 50, right?
Does that make sense, right? So here's some examples of successful JVs, right? Let's look at IM Tool Suite, right? Now this is not very successful yet, right? But I think it will be eventually, right?
There's not really a ton of people in it yet. It's new, right? What happens? They got a programmer, right? Now I don't, I would not form a JV quite like this.
This isn't my preference, okay? They got a programmer, they got a closer, they got somebody who does split tests and they got a manager, essentially. Personally, again, not my model, right? I'm not interested in doing anything like this. But it's a JV where they formed a company, they formed a company for this and they're doing split shares on the profits, all right?
Advantages to that? Well, Cedric, who's the closer, couldn't do this with crap. Cedric is not a programmer, he's a closer, right? Cedric also is not going to do split testing period, but Jim Chow can, right? Then he's, Kenny's a detail freak, he's a freakazoid, right?
If the details aren't in place, he'll go crazy on you, you know what I mean? It's kind of funny because I've worked with these guys, I've done JVs with these guys, right? That's an example. They formed this little company, well, they got 500 members in this deal, what's the disadvantages of it? They're doing straight profit splits between the four of them.
Four people to do just straight profit splits on everything you're doing is a lot, you know? What if one of you is working 18 times as hard as the other one, right? This might, there's advantages and disadvantages, right? What's another example of a JV, right? I'll give you guys different kinds of examples and partnerships.
And these are the things, you know, together you can be stronger and there are different ways to do things. You don't have to do any of this. You can make a lot of money not doing any of it, right? MLSP. Now that's actually an ultra good example and there's a lot of elements to it.
What do they got? They got three people, right? They got Todd, again, Todd was the programmer, right? They got Brian and they got Norb, right? Now.
Now originally, Brian was not in this, right? He came in later, all right? Originally it was Norb and Todd, all right? Norbert was kind of the company face, you know? He was very believable.
The thing about Norbert is you look at him and anybody can believe him, right? He's sweet looking, his hair is parted perfectly, you know? Yeah, and he's like, hi, I'm Norbert. And you're just like, hi, Norbert, you know what I mean? Right?
Well, Brian, Brian is a hype guy and copywriting, right? Who creates all the hype in MLSP? Well, Brian, hype is useful, right? We learned yesterday hype is useful, right? It is.
Hype sells, just straight up, right? Majority of the population buy on hype, right? It sells big time. So Brian is copywriting hype, that kind of a thing, right? And now they formed a company structure outside of this, right?
Well, what are some advantages to MLSP? Well, they created a really, really, really, really good product, right? Where they now have viral content creation, viral promotion. And now their model is they're paying their affiliates 30% to 40%. Okay, so what they're doing is they're then splitting 60% to 70% after expenses.
So then they have bandwidth expenses, company expenses. But what's the solution? What's the success of the model? Well, I don't know what they're doing now. Not really a lot more.
That's it. Yeah, not a lot more, right? It's not big enough. I mean, it's not big enough. There's lots of partners.
But that income is, I'm telling you, it's straight. They're doing virtually nothing. Cool. Cool system, right? Great example.
Now let's show you another one, another examples of different things that you could do. And these are just ideas. And again, you guys need to take this into discussions and come up with ideas and just keep doing it. This is the life of an entrepreneur. Another one is magnetic sponsoring.
Put MS, although that is a disease too. Right? And who do you got? You got Dillard and you got Tim Irway. Jonathan Budd actually has a behind-the-scenes guy in his deal too, right?
Dillard was just doing magnetic sponsoring. Tim Irway actually came in later. What Tim Irway did, right, is Tim Irway scaled it. He said this could be 10 times bigger if it was in a better system. See, Mike Dillard was just doing copywriting.
Right? Dillard was just doing copywriting and selling it. And he's like, dude, we need to put this in a bigger scalable system. Right? So they formed a little JV between two people.
The result, 20 million in revenue, right, in five years. Right? That's examples of like partnership JVs starting a company which you could do with one person, no partnership. Some people hate partnerships. In some regards they're attractive and in some they're repealing, no, not attractive.
Right? And what if you start hating each other's guts later? Right? Well, that sucks. You both own it, don't you?
You know? Because you got to define what you want and don't want. Right? Okay. So what's some examples of different kinds of JVs outside of that?
Here are some fascinating ones and this is where you can all play. Let's look at Frank Kern. Who are all Frank Kern's JVs? Hey, Lawrence, who are all Frank Kern's buddies? We got Frank Kern, Ryan Dice.
Right? Dice. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. Gee's, we got Frank Kern, Ryan Dice.
Right? Dice. He's a new one, Brandon Burchard. And then there's a couple more. There's the video guy, Mike Konings?
Huh? Mike FilsHelp. Mike Fils�ame? Mike Fils�me? I don't even know what he does.
But, that's okay. He's the one I've… I'm not on his list. I'm not… These are the guys's list. All right. So, what happens?
Well, these guys all have their own individual companies. They all have their own companies. And what happens is they all do their own stuff, they all have their own funnels, they have their own process, and they all promote each other's launches whenever the other one does a launch. And they all got huge lists. Why?
Well, because let's say this person has 50,000 on their list, let's say this person has 50,000, this person has 50,000, this person has 50,000, this person has 50,000. Well, Mike Koenig says, guys, let's do a launch, I'm going to pay you a special JV rate on the launch above everybody else, because you're a partner, right? And now all of a sudden this guy has a list instead of 50,000 of a quarter of a million. And they know that. So now all of a sudden this guy's list escalates exponentially.
Well then, Brendan Burchard does a launch, bam, he has a list of a quarter of a million, bam. So what are about all these guys' list size, about a quarter of a million, half a million, a million, something like that? Right? Why? That's another example of a JV.
See that? So you start developing a list, start doing these things, and you find partners who are at a similar level with you, or can be in your game. And what does that do? It gives you enough influence to then scale to more JVs, right? Yeah.
Here's another example of this kind of thing in action. This is how, by the way guys, this is how five people are controlling every niche is this kind of stuff, right? Right? And your desire might not be to control a niche. I'm just telling you how to do it, all right?
So let's give a good example in our niche of another type of JV. Well you've got magnetic sponsoring, right, diseased again, no, I was kidding. You got MLSP, you got the SEO networkers, right? You got Jay Budd and his crew, right? They're controlling the network marketing niche right now, temporarily, right?
Yeah. But here's the thing, okay? Now this is the interesting thing, what have these guys ever done outside of JV launches? I don't know. Nothing maybe?
They're great guys, by the way. These guys are my buddies. But you see how they just built their relationship in here? They built this relationship in here and then they have a list out of nowhere of 50,000 people? No excuses.
No excuses. They didn't blow up their list, right? They didn't blow up their list, right? No excuses. No excuses.
Now here's the thing. Have you noticed anytime they do a launch, these guys, these guys, these guys do a launch anytime these guys. The only one who isn't really together here is these two are like, you know, I hate your guts. Right? I mean, they're like, I hate your guts so I think you're stupid.
And Jonathan Budd's like, well that's because you're not in tune with the universe. You know what I mean? So seriously, I mean, you know, MLSP guys are a little bit more competitive like that. Jay Budd just is more aloof. He's like, whatever.
I'm trying to get more in tune with love, man. That's why you're not promoting my launches. You're not in tune with the universe. But in any case, right? So now all of a sudden, Jay Budd's got an active list of 100,000 or so.
90,000 when I first met him is what he had about was about 90,000 actives, right? He has a lot of unsubscribes because he hammers them. Carbon Copy Pro does not seem to do a lot of JVs, right? So that's another example but he has a JV company within his own company, right? Right.
So Carbon Copy Pro, for example, is a conglomeration of the skills of Jay Kubasek, David Schwind, right? A buddy of mine. He's actually going to come here originally. He got distracted doing a launch or something. I can't remember, you know.
But it's a combination of skills, right? Informed Carbon Copy Pro. But you look at this. Now MLSP, they're not emailing their whole database because they have this agreement to not email people's personal leads but they do capture them. But their list that they promote to when they're doing a promotion is the act, the people who've bought memberships and are still active.
And if you send any leads to the site that they opted in MLSP, the MLSP site leads, right? So their list probably that they could promote to is maybe 60,000. Magnetic Sponsoring is the biggest here, probably a quarter of a million, right? And then the ESO networkers over here, I bet they have 40,000, 50,000 active because of all the launches they've done. Maybe only 30,000 but they have a really powerful buyer list, right?
Of a lot of people's buyers. But the point is now, and these numbers, by the way, I'm just inventing them so don't think that this is actually how much these guys have because I don't look in their Aweber accounts. I'm just guessing, you know. But now all of a sudden, what do they got? Let's say this is the numbers.
They got 150,000, 400,000, 460,000 leads being emailed about every major launch between the four excluding the fact that MLSP won't promote JBUD and JBUD won't promote anything with MLSP. But they all promote Magnetic Sponsoring which is why they have the biggest list, don't they? JBUD doesn't also tend to promote the SEO networkers. So this is all, they all really promote MLSP. These guys promote these guys.
These guys promote these guys. Ann Sieg will come in and she'll promote some stuff here too. And Ann Sieg has a list of about 350,000. She's bigger than Magnetic. She was doing it longer.
She started this whole thing. Yeah. Most people don't know that. Well Mark Hoverson just, just, not really. No, this is his first big launch.
He partnered with Magnetic. He came in and got an idea for a product. Mark Hoverson's good at sales. He runs GRN. He owns GRN.
And he mostly focuses on that. And he has his own stuff. You know what I mean? But these are examples of masterminds at work, right? In different niches of the business.
Yeah. In different things. Just to give you ideas of connections you can make. Right? You know what I'm saying?
This is just to give you examples and ideas of ways you can connect with each other and just things to be rolling around in your mind. Because one thing sometimes a lot of people struggle with, they're like, man, I can't do all this stuff. So? You know? What can Jim Chow do?
You know? I mean. I'm teasing. He's good. He is pretty good at tracking and split testing actually.
He's pretty analytical. Jim's good. But I'm teasing it because I've worked with him. You know what I mean? And he's good at forming JV relationships a lot of times, you know?
But you see what I'm saying, guys? Just kind of a path that gives you more influence, right? That's how more influence is created by leveraged circles, all right? So here's an example of how you could kind of work your way in because people will tend to play with you at your level, right? You got a list of a thousand.
It's pretty easy to do a JV with another thousand there, right? In fact, you can do it. In fact, the stone-cold thousand there might even participate. All right. But, you know, they'll tend to do JVs with similar size lists, all right?
Does that make sense? So then let's say you want to work your way into a bigger JV, right? So what you do then is let's say, you know, okay. So I got a strategy now. I know how to get leads.
I've got a product idea. It's scalable, right? I got a plan. And you form a few JV partners. Let's say you develop a list of 150 people each, right?
How many you got? 450 people to email, right? So you say, I'm going to do a launch, then I'm going to do a launch, then I'm going to do a launch, and now all of you got a list of 450 free leads, right? Superior. Isn't it?
Then just grinding it away all the time, right? And now all of a sudden you can do JVs with people who have 450 leads, right? And now whenever your prospects are getting a launch email, they're getting hammered by three people they all respect who are promoting each other, just rather than just one. What do you got? Well, people who either hate your guts or buy, you know, a lot more buyers, more social proof, right?
That make sense? All right. That makes sense. And then all of a sudden you guys could come together, you develop something. You say, shoot, we got to, you know, would you guys be willing to do a JV with us with your list of 60,000?
Well, maybe now you get 30,000 leads or 10,000 leads, instantly growing a list. How much would that cost through PPC to do, to grow a list of 10,000 people like that? Expensive, right? Tribe Pro, they come along. MLSP likes it.
They say, you know, I see how this could benefit our community if everybody uses it on their own blogs promoting MLSP. How many people do you think are in Tribe Pro on their list? I'd bet, because everybody who owns it is on their list, I'd bet 5,000, 10,000 maybe. I have 2,500 people in my tribe, right, in Tribe Pro. So I imagine a lot of the people who are in are in my tribe, right?
So there's probably twice that many in there. 5,000. But the thing is a lot of buyers in there. Everybody's buyer list is now on Tribe Pro's list. Now these guys as of right now, and they will later, do not know how to market to that list very well.
But they will. They'll figure it out probably, hopefully for them. They got a big list now. Everybody's buyers. How?
Owning a system. Right? So systems can then attract JV partners. Does that make sense? Because you develop a way to make money.
Here's the attraction. Here's why. You have a way to make money, right, that converts, it's proven, and it's profitable. Right? You know how attractive that is to somebody that's got a big list of people who want to buy stuff?
Well shoot, I don't even have to make a product, I'll just email it to this thing and it's not managed by me. It's attractive, right? How attractive is selling something like LeadNet Pro? You don't have to own it and you make 300 bucks a pop. Does that make sense?
See? You can get people who have huge lists slamming it if you're eventually, right, and this is the direction you could go with JVs and stuff. Does that make sense to everybody? That's where you want to grow to because that's how everybody who has more than 30,000 people on their list, because that's about where I'm at, I've done most of it through myself. Grassroots.
Right? To get to 300,000, I can't do that. Right? I could. I'm going to be in a lot of pain for a long time spending a lot on advertising and I spend the money on advertising too.
Do you guys see the point? JVs is how to move to the next level. You can grow a list so fast it's unbelievable if you're smart and you have some ingenuity. And you don't even have to be a great presenter. You could do a JV with a good presenter, freak, how good is Jim Chow at prospecting?
It just doesn't matter. Cedric Harris is working with them. Cedric Harris will close you on buying an elephant if you can only afford a puppy. Right? He says, but the elephant is so much bigger, you could drive through town stomping on things.
Come on. Buy now. 100% money back guarantee. It will poop on your neighbor's lawn or it will give you your money back. Right?
The power in that is, number one, there is enough for everybody. Right? Yeah. Yeah. If you start teaching yourself, you know, this is, there's more and enough for me.
Right? Not a more powerful mind and you can give to your, not a more powerful message you could give to your mind. There's more than enough. It's not a competitive world, it's an abundant world. People see it as competitive because they've had lack.
Right? You need to think differently in that. We need to elevate ourselves above that. Right? Number two.
You. Yeah. powerful than just the two either on your own. Right? For everything.
You all make more money. Right? Number three, you ain't good at everything and you don't want to be. Jack of all trades is a master of none and also tends to go around fixing stuff for five bucks an hour. Alright?
Something I learned from John Maxwell. This is from an Amway tape and I can't stand and really listen to this guy because I think he's kind of boring, but he's got a lot of wisdom. A lot of boring wisdom. So, you know, those of you who like that kind of thing, get some John Maxwell CDs. Right?
But Jay Maxwell, right, he's talking about leadership, you know, and when you form a team like that, he says, here's the reality. He says, if you're a one in an area and that's your natural level of skill, you're going to be a one. And everybody's got some ones. Right? Whether it's listening to others or people skills or technical ability like me.
Right? If you're a one, a life of hard work can move you plus about two points and if you really work, maybe three or four. Right? That doesn't really, I'll just say three. He says a life of hard work can move you two points, maybe three.
In any area. So, he says, if you're a one, you're going to be a one. If you're a one in an area and you work your whole life, he's like, well, yeah, it's great. You might be able to move to a four tops. But here's the problem.
A four doesn't make much money in any trade in the world. Right? He says, but if you're naturally a seven in an area, a life of hard work can move you to a nine or a ten. He says, nines make a million dollars a year. In anything.
So, what would you work on? A ten. Here. Knowing that. What you're strong at or what you're weak at.
Everybody wants to work what they're weak at, but that doesn't make much sense because nobody wants to listen to them for what they're weak at. They want to listen to them for why they're strong. That make sense? But here's the point with JVs. You're a one here, so what do you need?
A JV partner or somebody to outsource to who's a ten. If you want to get to a new level. There's power in community. Right? There's parts of the body.
I'm never going to be as nice as you. I won't be. My mom neither. I won't be as nice as my mom no matter how hard I try in my life. I just can't care quite enough.
I can care a lot, but just not as good as my mom. Love her to pieces. Same thing with my wife. So, in any case, that's power in community, power in JVs. Now let's talk about a couple of concepts.
We didn't get a cover yesterday. Right? Remember this chart we built out. We said traffic. We got leads.
We got conversions. And I left this blank, I think, over here, but this is actually culture. That's what I put here. Right? And so with traffic modalities, here's the thing.
There's stuff that is good and not so good right now, and it always shifts and changes all the time. Right? Right? What works tends to shift and change. Right now I'm getting a lot of traffic from manipulating the mechanics of Tribe Pro.
It probably won't always work. But it will work for a while. Because nobody else thinks like me. Right? But the point is the traffic shifts and change.
But again, we covered in the Perpetual Funnel series, what are different ways to get traffic. You've got paid online. You've got paid traffic. And that could come from any form of PPC or PPV, right? CPA, you know, things like this, cost per acquisition.
There's a lot of ways to do paid advertising. You have paid, right? And you have social, you have SEO. They're all different. They all operate different.
And people I've seen have greater problems with paid, especially if they have an analytical ability this big, because, you know, they tend to not want to abide by any terms and conditions anywhere, like me. Facebook disapproves their ad, and rather than fixing it, they want to throw a rock in the window on Facebook. Yeah, you want to do that several times, I bet, huh? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So in any case, right, so there's different ways to get traffic. Now, all my traffic has come from social and SEO, right? And there's also another element here from, you know, social and SEO, which is viral, right? Now, SEO traffic, for people that are trying to get into social traffic, usually they need to start with SEO. The reason is because you don't have a big network when you start.
You need to start building one, right? And SEO traffic is what? Traffic that's created from people finding articles, videos, PDFs. They're actually indexed now, right? Audios.
Any kind of content can be indexed if it's done properly, right? Now, I'm not the best expert here. This man is right here, Ola. So if you want to take some minutes, come up, talk about just some concepts, SEO concepts to help you get started, because I encourage everybody coming out of here to at least either write or outsource at least one article a day, right, and run it through a process that you decide on. Now, what's the best process?
Everybody's always asking me. Now, before he comes up, I'm just going to tell you, the best process is something that somebody else isn't doing.
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