Interview with Barbie Zabel

Okay, welcome to this exclusive Empower Network Inner Circle interview. And because you're listening to this, you're in the right place at the right time. My name is Chris Rushlow, your host, and your designated driver through the cyber waves. A quick reminder, let's all block out distractions. Tune out all background noises.

Turn off the TV, close the door, turn off the cell phone. You have all heard this before. Make sure to close out your Skype. Don't forget your email. You want to be tuned in to listen to this.

It's going to be a good one today. So if you're at your computer, shut it down. Or if you're listening to this on your computer, then make sure you open up a Word document or get out your notebook. You might want to jot a few things down that you get. You're definitely going to get a few gold nuggets.

If you're driving, maybe just slow down a bit, listen intently rather than trying to pass the car in front of you. My guest on the line today, Barbie Zabel, is the all-time number four income earner in Empower Network. And why have you never heard of her? Because as she puts it herself, she's not a guru. She says that her secret to success is that she kept learning and kept going when others stopped.

She'll be quick to point it out in her own words. "I've never taken the Internet by storm, have not been the fastest learner, have spent more time creating. So I've moved forward at what seems like a snail's pace, but I've been steady. And that's what's winning some races for me." Well, all that has really paid off, now she enjoys the number five all-time recruiter spot in Empower Network as well as the number four income earner spot.

Here today to tell her 10-years-in-the-making overnight success story, Barbie Zabel. How are you?

Barbie: That was beautiful. Thank you so much. I'm doing well. How are you, Chris?

Chris: I'm excited. I'm glad that I finally get a chance to talk to you and get this interview with you. I was talking with Dave about this, and we were looking at some of the leaders, and there were some names on there that we hadn't recognized before, we'd never heard of. And he says to me, he goes, "Have you ever heard of Barbie Zabel?" And I go, "Who's that?"

And he goes, "She's on our top 10, man. And at one point, she was like number two or number one for a while." And I'm going, "Are you kidding? Are you kidding me?" And he goes, "You got to go check out this lady."

"You got to check out who she is. There's some people we just didn't see coming, and here they are." And I said, well, we definitely got to get her on an interview. This is going to be cool. So I'm real happy to be here today.

And I went and checked out a little bit of what you've got going on as an internet marketer and some of your sites and all. And so it's really cool to see, as you tell your stories there and what you've gone through, to see the kind of transformation and evolution you've gone through. And so if you will, Barbie, let's start back with your story and where you came from, what got you into the industry, and maybe some of the major turning points in your life that caused you to go down the path that you did.

Barbie: Well, first of all, I very much appreciate the opportunity that I'm being given here. And I can't even tell you how much the Empower Network has changed my life already in just a little less than two months. I am learning so many new things I can't even begin to tell you. But back when I was a little kid, I just grew up in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio, small town, small community.

My dad was a football coach in the local high school. My mom worked at the local newspaper as a kind of a greeter, a secretary, and an all-around sort of a newspaper gal. She did some editing and did a lot of all kinds of stuff in the newspaper. So we were lower middle class folks, you know, living not necessarily the American dream, but we certainly had a great life. I remember playing with stuff in my dad's wastebasket.

I would pull stuff out of his wastebasket that was beside his desk. They were business forms, old checkbooks that were voided, things like that. I would take them out as a little kid. I would be playing as a business person. And that somehow got me to stay on that track.

I strongly believe that I would, in some way, live a business life. I had a perspective of a business owner, so I had a whole bunch of perspective about my business and my environment. However, my connections gradually developed. And you might assume, well, I understood that business is a business. And I could put myself in a business, under sometimes the term "former business owner."

But that, well, it's called business. It's like a personality spread all over. I'm not saying that I'm mediocre. I had a lot of talents. Through high school, a lot of my artistic talents came out in art and in business.

My artistic talents came out in the business classes that I took as well. But I just didn't really know who I was yet. And what I did know was that I wanted to be on my own and support myself. So in the middle of my senior year, I moved out, got my own apartment, still going to school, graduated, had my own apartment, my own job, and supported myself. And that continued thereafter.

But then I married, married very early. I was just shy of 20 years old when I got married. My priorities changed, from my personal goal to the family goal. I needed to add to the family coffer, so to speak. So I just started taking minimum wage, menial jobs just to add to the family income.

Know what that's like. And then after that, I got pregnant. It's almost like my life took the turn that it was supposed to take first. Because I still say that being a mom was and is the most important job I've ever had.

I put a lot of time and energy into my family, my children, their school, their activities. So that was actually my first career.

Chris: No, I agree. As a mother, it should be, in my opinion.

Barbie: And I feel very blessed and lucky that my husband at that time had a job that could support us all while I stayed at home. Today is a little bit different. The economy has changed, and many couples have to work full-time jobs and leave the care of their children with others. And I was not in that position.

I can look at my kids and just be very thankful that I was the one caring for them. I was the one taking them to sports and picking them up. I was the one that had their friends over. I was the one.

And their care didn't go to anybody else. And I feel badly that the economy hasn't afforded that to some families. But that makes me just so thankful that I was able to be with my kids and live their life with them as they were growing up. But then that business side of me kind of took over again.

It's like, okay, is this all there is? Just kids and snotty noses and carpooling and kid, kid, kid. I kind of lost myself, so I wanted to get back into me and my interests, which hadn't really been in the forefront for several years at this point. So I thought, well, I'd like to add to the family again.

My kids are in school at this point, so I have a little bit more time to put into something else. And at that time, a local business sort of landed in my lap. And I really wanted to sell it.

I was interested in it. It was a women's, just a very small women's fitness and tanning salon.

Chris: Oh, very cool. That's right up my alley.

Barbie: So we actually did get a lawyer to advise us, but apparently the lawyer we had was the same lawyer that the business person who was selling the business had.

Chris: Wow.

Barbie: Unbeknownst at the time. So, being very new to the business world and having a brick and mortar business, we received virtually no guidance. So we jumped off the cliff.

And that was an excellent experience for me. I had employees. I had taxes and quarterlies and all the fun stuff. I had advertising to take care of and business to take care of.

And sometimes the kids would come there and be there with me. Everybody loved them. So it was a great business to have and to learn from. And it failed more miserably every year because I didn't know what I was doing. And there was a local chapter of business people in that particular area called SCORE.

Chris: SCORE.

Barbie: And I called them for help and guidance, of which, again, they didn't give any. Maybe because I was just a young mother. I have no idea.

But that seemed to be a dead-end road and I was either going to sink or swim all on my own. And I swam for five years before I finally threw in the towel. However, during that time, I learned a lot about what it takes to be in business, about what it takes in your emotions, your mentality, your spirituality, your physicality, and to keep going and to keep trying because I was not into failure. I loved the business itself.

I loved it. I enjoyed working it. There's got to be a way to make this thing work. Well, eventually, the money ran out, and I couldn't keep it afloat anymore, so we shut it down, and we actually went bankrupt. So then began the phase of healing the old wounds and trying to figure out what we learned from it all and to begin anew.

Chris: It's funny that you can't really understand how tough it is to go through a bankruptcy until you actually go through it.

Barbie: Well, you feel like such a failure. It doesn't matter how hard you worked to not be in that situation. You just feel like a failure, and it took some time to work myself out of that failure mentality. Because I have to start over shouldn't mean that this should just dog me the rest of my life, you know. And so we did what was necessary to rebuild our credit. We just carried on. We moved forward.

And a few years later, there was a divorce that didn't have anything to do with the bankruptcy. It was personal issues between he and I. We decided to part ways, at which point I moved about an hour away, and my son and daughter decided to stay in the school district that they had grown up in. They didn't want to go to a new school, you know, when they're in high school. "These are the friends I grew up with."

So they chose to stay with their dad. But I was only an hour away, which means I could go to all their sports. I could go to all their concerts.

I could be there for them when I was needed. And I was. Then I met somebody who was more in line with my then current mentality and emotions, and remarried. This guy, who is the love of my life.

His name is Rob. Love him to death. We've been married now over 13 years.

Chris: Well, congratulations.

Barbie: Thank you. And I still love, adore, and respect the person I wake up with every morning. He has more of a sales mentality. He's a car salesman today. So he and I can both get on the subject of, here's what happened today, here's what I said, here's what I did, and we can help critique each other and give each other pointers, as far as sometimes you need to stand outside of the window and look in to see what's really happening. And when you're inside, you can't see the forest through the trees sometimes. So when you have somebody that's able to look objectively at what you're doing and how you're doing it, and has the strength and the permission to tell you like it is from their point of view, it's really helpful to keep growing and keep going.

Chris: And I think the wisdom to have the humility to be able to listen to that person rather than feeling like you're justified and right about a situation actually is to your credit as well, because that'll help. A lot of people won't listen to that other person being objective, looking outside from the window saying, hey, you might want to look at it from this way, you might not be seeing this.

And I know a lot of people who won't listen to that kind of thing. So I think it goes both ways there. So give yourself credit because not everybody will listen to that.

Barbie: And both he and I can be stubborn mules in that respect where we can put those walls up immediately and feel defensive.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbie: I mean, I don't know about our way of thinking and our way of acting, but as we continue talking about it, those walls come down and the stubbornness leaves and we change our thinking and try something new outside of our own individual boxes. And that has worked for both he and I. Since I had more time because the kids weren't living with me and I wasn't in that same role as I was in before, I had more time to start tinkering on the internet and, of course, it has grown in leaps and bounds since I started looking into it. But there were opportunities for business all around me.

And I tried this and I tried that, tried making webpages, tried tinkering. Funny how close opportunities and things like that can be to you when you're made aware of it. When your awareness is at a point where you have the ability to see those things, where before, it's like nothing was there, but you just didn't see it. It's funny how that works, huh?

Chris: Yeah.

Barbie: Well, and it came at a great time because then I was open. I had the time to learn. I had the time to absorb.

My husband was working. My kids were in school. And I had the time to start tinkering and playing with it and putting up some webpages and seeing what responses I got from different people. And at this point, marketing wasn't in the picture at all.

I just didn't -- as in the brick and mortar business I had, marketing was just something that was elusive to me in my brain. I just didn't get it. I knew you had to advertise. I had no idea the amount of exposure it takes to get the eyeballs that you need, to get the sales that you need. Dave had a wonderful video up this morning that I watched where he explained about the marketing funnel.

Man, I wish I had known that 10 years ago.

Chris: Well, isn't that why we're all here?

Barbie: Yeah. Oh, that video was awesome, and I'm going to watch it over and over again.

Chris: It is. You're right. It is awesome. I'm going to watch it over again, too. It's funny.

You know, Dave, as close as I am to him, I find myself -- I'll just go watch his videos just because he is a genius in a lot of ways. And it's funny that we have these funnels being in place now.

Barbie: Exactly.

Chris: Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that's really interesting about this, is that we're all here.

Because people don't realize, and I think this is important to point out, Barbie, is that we tend to think, well, if we can just get this amount of leads into our business, and we look at the numbers and think, well, for every hundred people, if we're just doing God awful horrible, and just getting it in front of people, we're going to get three of those, and some people look at it as a numbers game. But what they don't ever normally look at is that we're going to get three out of a hundred, on a worst case scenario, first exposure when they come into your funnel. But what they don't understand is that you can still capture another 20, 30, 40 percent on the back end of a funnel. And most people don't ever realize and look at that and see how important a funnel actually is, because the average person needs five to six to seven exposures of something before they make a decision.

And so, to have that science here and have it be understood as well as it is, and we all are able to profit from that and be able to use that, that's amazing. I've never seen that before in this capacity.

Barbie: Oh, no. And I've been -- my income has been steadily growing as I've tinkered into stumbling into some sort of success.

And having that just continue in an upward way for me, and I still am awed by his half an hour presentation, and that I can see exactly what I was missing before. And that it's all available with the Empower Network, and I did not have the resources to put something that awesome together myself when all the pieces are already there together. Boom, it's right here, right now.

Chris: Exactly. It's kind of amazing. We talked about it for a while, and it was just the frustration of -- we said, it takes so long for somebody to learn this stuff. And we always thought, well, where are we going to go now?

How could we just streamline somebody past that learning curve, to where if they just knew that this particular thing could get them results and they just kept going with it, even getting them to the point of belief -- and the belief was that they had to have results to get that belief. They had to actually make some sales and have some people join them. And they had to have that process in order to believe it.

And the reality was always the disconnect was, well, six to 12 months to really learn how to put a funnel together and do it all scientifically in a way that really works. But the average person is gone in 60 to 90 days, so they don't make it to that even six-month early-adopter cutoff, for the fast learning. And so we were like, how can we streamline it? And then when this came together, we just knew all the pieces have come together. And that's why we're here.

Barbie: Once again, that's why we're here, which is awesome. And even what I've done to get here has been what I found when I was on a very strict budget and I needed to start with free or very low cost. I just put all my links together. What do I have that I can promote, and just put them all together in a format -- these I can post every day, these I can post every two days.

These I can post every three days. And these I can post every seven days. So, to preface that, I kind of jumped ahead. But to preface that, I heard somebody say, back in -- might have been 2006, 2007 -- that the reason they were so successful was because they posted 300 ads a day. And I was not disciplined in that.

I was sporadic and expected pie-in-the-sky results from ordering one thing.

Chris: Well, that's normal, I think that's normal. I think as marketers, we learn how to be able to sell. And when we learn how to sell, we learn to be able to paint a picture for somebody of the possibility of what they could have and what they would get if they buy this particular product.

And the thing that's normally not said is, hey, by the way, you probably really have no idea how much work is involved in actually doing this.

Barbie: Right, right. Which is the reality -- to be just, to stay consistent with it, that will win out because most people won't normally stay very consistent unless they have everything laid out in front of them, such as Empower Network.

Chris: Exactly. Funny how it keeps coming back around to that, huh?

Barbie: Yeah, it does. Well, that's where we are. I mean, like I said at the very beginning, my life has totally changed because of it.

But what led up to that was just posting ads, mostly safe lists and list builders and text ad exchanges. And those are all basically the same type of thing. You borrow somebody else's list. All these people are joining these lists in order to be able to advertise to each other. And when you click the links, then they get credits to advertise to more people.

So I just started -- well, let me get into the discipline of this. Obviously, I'm not disciplined and it's going to take more than ordering one thing. There is no one thing that's going to save my butt here. I've experienced that.

I'm not getting results, so I need to put myself on a schedule. So I put all those links that I currently had in a schedule and started posting to those. And as I was posting to those and earning credits by clicking on other people's links, I found other free things to join, which I did, and created a very large list of places where I could post my ads. I just kept on schedule every day on these, every two days on these, every three days on these, and every seven days on these.

Keep going, keep going, keep going. And that is what allowed me to quit all outside jobs and stay at home.

Chris: Wow.

Barbie: Because the income that I gained just from that discipline exceeded my little part time job income that I had going at the time. So it was time to stay home and start doing more of it. "If I'm getting this from free lists, what happens if I upgrade?" So I started taking a portion of all my profits and putting them into upgrades or into purchasing maybe some e-zine ads or solo advertising from these same safe lists and list builders and text ad exchanges.

Chris: Well, I think this is important to point out here, and let's not downplay this, the fact that you made a plan and you actually stuck to it, which is where a lot of people will fall short. You made your schedule and you stayed consistent with it, which is what proved to start getting you the results that was able to help you at least quit any outside jobs because you were now generating income.

And then on top of that, you didn't take the instant gratification road of taking that money and just using it for your own personal, family life and everything. In a smart way, you reinvested that money. You reinvested it back into what would leverage you and made the best efficient use of your money. And that's what a lot of people won't do as well -- they want to be at that level where you started upgrading and making money.

They want to be there already at the first click of a button rather than going through that process of realizing that if you can't even prove to yourself to be consistent first, that you can be relied upon by the people you're involved with, and the processes that you've put in front of you, then what makes you think you can be trusted with more, it's a process there. And so you went in and instead of just taking that money after you started making it, you reinvested it and got smarter with it and started leveraging it.

So you went through this full process, and most people don't ever see that because it's kind of like Hollywood actors when all of a sudden they break out, have a breakout role and they seem like an overnight success. But we don't realize the 10 years of hard work with no results they got before.

Barbie: Right, right. And as I was posting to these safe lists, I built my own list, because I posted mostly lead capture pages, so that if they wanted the information about what I was promoting, they had to opt in. So I was leveraging safe lists and funneling them into my own.

Chris: Very cool.

Barbie: Which has helped tremendously. And is the biggest reason that I went as far as I did with the Empower Network as quickly as I did, was because of the work that I put in prior, in that schedule, that daily discipline, and putting them onto my own list rather than a company's list.

Chris: Well, and let's talk about that for a second, because so many people say, well, it's important to build a list.

Barbie: Exactly right.

Chris: But what most people don't know how to do correctly is properly cultivate that list. And has it been about a decade now that you've been playing with Internet marketing since you really started?

Barbie: Yeah, but I'm going to say I got serious at the very beginning of 2006.

Chris: Okay. Right. All right.

Barbie: I think what has been most responded to when I send something to my list is my desire to help, and sometimes my desire to help does not contain a link to anything else. It has more of a tough-love sort of mentality to what I'm writing. I've run into a lot of people who aren't willing to put in the time, put in the discipline, even if it's a half an hour a day. They're not willing, and they label whatever it is that they got into a scam because they weren't willing to do the work, not because the program itself wasn't working. It's because they didn't work the program.

Right, and so a lot of my focus has been on this discipline, this consistency, this persistency, this "I will not fail." I can, I do, and I'm not going to stop until I succeed, and even then I'm not stopping -- I'm just on the next threshold of succeeding. So a lot of those types of emails are the ones that I get most of the messages back from -- "I finally heard you, I've been on your list for a long time, and what you said in this particular email is what I really needed to hear, and I haven't been doing this and I haven't been doing that, and I've been thinking of making money on the Internet as a hobby rather than as an important business that deserves priority." And so those types of emails are the ones that I get the most feedback from. But sometimes, especially with the Empower Network, I've been able to write those kinds of emails with a link to something that can further help -- if this interests you, if you are ready to dig your heels in and you're ready to do the daily walk, then this will help you, because it will not only take you to the first level but the 10th, the 20th, and beyond.

Chris: Go ahead.

Barbie: And as it grows -- the Empower Network has grown just in its training since I've been a member, and it grows consistently. So as the Internet changes, so will our training. So I know that if you're ready for the 20th level of growth, it's going to be there.

If you're ready for the 50th level, it's going to be there, because it grows as we, as a society, as human beings on the planet, grow, as well as the Internet grows. And things move and change so quickly.

Chris: Empower Network doesn't miss that. Oh, we will make sure of that. You've already proven it. It's already happening.

Barbie: That's exactly right. That is true. That is something that a lot of people will put funnels together and create a system, and then they'll promote that system for the next 10 years. However, the nature of...

Chris: Even the way human beings communicate with each other, with social media and everything else, continues to change and evolve, and we're committed here to make sure that we are on the cutting edge. This is what I want to have everyone know, and this is what I'm really excited about. It really comes down to this, because there's systems out there that are put in place to help people make money. Now obviously, we're helping people make more money than ever before.

But when you look at it, when you have someone who is on the cutting edge of how everything is done and is continually pushing forward and comes up with ideas that continue to prove to work, when you have someone like David Sharpe and David Wood on the forefront of that, brainstorming and going, okay, well, where are we heading now, where are we heading? And we come up with an idea, and we go, okay, rather than going, "you know what, no one's ever done that before, that's not proven, let's not do it,"

the question that's asked is, well, how can we make this work? Well, I don't know, because no one's ever done this before, we're in uncharted territory. And that's how David Wood has been able to build his whole business, doing things that no one has done yet and proving it to work. So the proven track record, all I see is the ability to be able to do that.

And that's what works for me. And to know that we're continuing to change, putting social media integration into the blogging network and everything, just doing things that hasn't really been done in this way before. And we're going to continue to make it easier for someone to be able to have results and have success and stick around here.

Barbie: So you're exactly right about that. And I think that's really intelligent, to be able to point out that we are moving forward and being able to understand that about how things change.

Chris: We, as I am here to tell you, we are moving forward. And I tell you, we are committed to making sure we are always on the cutting edge. We love it. We geek out on it, just to be completely honest. And we have fun with it.

So if it's a selfish thing, sure, we have fun with it. But will everybody be able to benefit from that? Absolutely.

Barbie: Oh, it's absolutely contagious.

Chris: Contagious.

Barbie: And I will tell you, the month and a half, two months prior to me learning about the Empower Network, I was floundering because I don't know the first thing about Facebook marketing. I don't know the first thing about blogging. I've got one system down. But if I want my income to grow and continue to grow, if I don't want to be sitting there posting ads for eight hours a day, which I don't, the only way I can grow in that system is to join more things and post more. And I knew, because of the way the Internet was changing, that I needed to change, and I didn't know how.

I knew I needed to get into more social media, and I knew I needed to get more into blogging. And I did not come across a system that I felt was going to take me in the direction that I needed. Until Empower hit. And I swear, I saw that nondisclosure, two-hour video, and I was in it. I was all in immediately because it was exactly what I needed.

It was exactly, I knew that I needed to get to my next phase, of income and growth and personal development.

Chris: Absolutely. I think we all needed that. I think that was the most refreshing breath of fresh air to the Internet marketing industry as a whole that I've ever seen, was that two-hour NDA webinar. Because I got the same response every time from everybody. "Wow, this is amazing. Has anybody ever done this before?

This is exactly what we need. Now I'm in it. I am here. I am going nowhere.

I'm not going anywhere else. I'm right here at Empower. I am sold." And I just had never seen or heard that so much in such a short amount of time after that webinar. From everybody.

Barbie: From everybody who watched it.

Chris: Well, certainly, its time has come. And now it's almost like I can't keep up with it, because now I have this daily discipline, and I need to add more to it.

Barbie: So I'm integrating how to back off some things and add on other things, in order that I change and grow and do what I'm being taught. And so that's been the newest challenge for me. But it's all been good. And I know that we'll be growing with the Empower Network for years to come.

Chris: Well, that's why we put the core commitments in place that we did. Because it's funny how you had a set defined plan, and within that plan were commitments that you made. And, from what I'm hearing here, that was the catalyst for you to be able to leverage the successes that you had and build one upon the other.

Barbie: Right.

Chris: You did the daily disciplines, which is a part of the same thing we put together in Empower Network. And you have many people that will be naturally skeptical and go, "come on." And the reality is that everybody I talk to that has a commitment list, that has their daily consistent set of commitments, are the ones that produce and have results. And so I think those things are brilliant.

We came up with those, and it was a 10-month period of talking about it. We knew pretty much what it was going to be, but how to convey that to people and help people understand how important it was, was the big part about it. And being able to hear your story today has helped, I think, everybody listening here to know how important those core commitments are. Because, let's contrast this for a minute, Barbie -- we were having a little bit of a conversation about this before we got on the line.

It was that you see some gurus and people who are making good money, and they're out there promoting themselves. And you see that they seem to have this magical thing that they do, or they have an abnormal skill set in terms of either intelligence, genius, brilliance, or sales ability, or an ability to market. And I kind of think that as personas, they spend more time comparing themselves to other people than actually looking at anyone else that they interact with. Or being entertaining. And you just think, well, you start comparing yourself.

And you go, well, I don't naturally have those. So how can I be who they are? And the funny thing about that is that they went through the same process and had to go through the same core set of consistent commitments that the rest of us did in order for them to be where they're at. And it's so practiced that they make it look easy at that time, because it becomes what you might call muscle memory to them now, where it looks like it just naturally became a part of who they are as they applied something to their life and did it over and over again. It just naturally becomes a part of who you are.

Barbie: You're right. And it's funny that we say you don't have to be a guru, you can just make money like one, and we meant it. When Sharpe said that, we meant it, and it's proven now that you look at the leaderboards, and yes, there are some people in there that you would say have guru status, but the majority of them don't. They're just making money like one, and they're being consistent and doing what they do, exactly like what you've done, which is just stay consistent every day, slowly grow, make sure that you don't miss any steps, that you didn't overlook anything, and steadily and consistently move forward, learning lessons and implementing what you learn piece by piece. There is no magic and no mystery there.

Chris: And you look at this leaderboard -- our number one income earner is someone who's part-time still. And so he's just consistent all the time. So I think that's what really speaks for people in here, why this thing has caught fire, is that you see the leaders and they're not gurus, they don't seem superhuman. Now, I know David Wood looks like he can leap tall buildings in a single bound and shoot laser beams out of his eyes. And I know there's no "S" on his chest when he has his shirt off in the picture.

But for the majority of people, it's showing that you don't have to. Because so many people come to me and go, well, I need to brand myself and I need to be able to sell my own products, and that's where the big money is at, and then from there, I can have people join my business. And you know what we did?

Barbie: We showed that wasn't the case. We showed that wasn't necessary. We showed that people don't have to go down that route in order to be able to have what they want, and in order to be able to create what they've been looking for, and to make their life better and bring their spouse home, and have free time, be able to retire from their job, all these things.

You don't have to go through that process of branding, you can just do what we've designed you to do. And there's no smoke and mirrors here. With a lot of the gurus, they'll teach you one thing and they got so many secrets, and so many things they don't teach you, that they don't do because they don't want to give that away, and that's not what this is about here. In Empower, we were like, hey, so many people are going to be able to do it -- special deals, no secrets. This is what we're doing.

Chris: And, yeah. Well, if somebody comes in and they want to brand themselves, they certainly can, because the ads that they post anywhere, whether it be on Facebook or any other social media or on their blog, especially the blog, has their picture, has their name, their ads can have their name in it. I mean, I'm very, very happy to jump on Dave Wood's back and Dave Sharpe's back and ride their success.

Barbie: Absolutely. I have certainly taken some of those email swipes and used them.

Chris: Absolutely. They know what they're doing.

Barbie: Sometimes I write my own. Sometimes I'll swipe theirs and use theirs. And I don't have any problem with promoting Dave and Dave. And, Chris, I have no problem, because we're all one, we're all in one system, and we're all helping each other learn and grow and prosper. And I'm certainly going to remain Barbie Zabel. I'm certainly going to remain recognizable to people who have spent the last couple of years seeing me all over the safe lists and list builders.

You know, I certainly have a name that some people in a certain particular niche recognize and will continue to -- "Oh, I know her," I get that a lot, "I see you everywhere." They say that just in that one particular niche, but now I can use that on another niche. So just because Dave is on the top of my blog means nothing and everything at the same time -- it means that his success can be used for my own success. His funnel is being used for my success and everyone else's success. It's just one for all and all for one.

"Hey, I'm on there too, my name's on the blog post that I write." I can brand myself that way and in my ads. So to me, that's a non-issue.

Chris: Yeah, exactly. And isn't it cool that we can have it either way, and it's all right in Empower Network? Someone who doesn't want to be branding and someone who does, and they both can do it within this system.

Barbie: Absolutely. Which is very, very cool.

Chris: Because it's funny, I was talking with Dave about this the other day. And he said, "I'm going to let people do what they want to do. I'm not into being controlled by somebody." Some other systems have some very strict rules, and there's a lot of deals that are given and things like that, and it can get even political.

And he says, "and I'm not about that and I don't want that, and that's not what this is about." And he says, so, within reason, as long as we can get people to stay legal, "I want to be able to breathe knowing that they can do what they want to do, and I'm okay with that."

Barbie: That's one of the biggest beauties about the Empower Network, is because we can reach people we otherwise would not have been able to reach. My sister, who is not an internet marketer, but is now becoming one, was not at this time.

I got a call on my cell phone when I was in the car with her, and she heard me talking. I had not talked to her about this -- I wasn't going to bring this to my family, that stuff that I'm doing there. They know that I market on the internet, they know what I do, and I also know that's not really who they wanted to be, so I don't bring this stuff to them. But she heard me talk to somebody else on the phone.

And so when we got back to her place, she said, "what are you doing, what is this?" And by golly, she has taken to this like a duck to water.

Chris: Oh, my goodness. So watch her.

Barbie: Well, her name is Jill, and she is an up-and-comer.

Chris: We will. And thanks for dropping that in there. I'm going to pay attention to see where she's at, because we want success stories like that. I don't think people realize the power of being able to take content and take videos, borrow the content of someone like David Wood or David Sharpe, or others, and just literally put it on their Facebook or Twitter or both, and get it around their networks of people, and how many people will actually just click on it and go, "what's this all about," and click on it, and how many people are making money just from going around and networking on Facebook and posting their content on social media. They don't have to learn any skill sets.

They don't have to learn any Internet marketing. They don't have to learn how to post ads. They don't have to learn how to do SEO. Now, that will definitely help in the long run.

Barbie: And they can learn that later. But people can make money right now just by getting that thing out on their Facebook and on Twitter, as long as they have a network of people there. It happens. I put mine out and, oh, my goodness, people that I never would have thought. That's the issue -- a lot of people will prejudge people and go, "oh, they would never be into that." You never know.

You never know where someone's really at in their life and what's really going on under the surface, where they might really desperately be wanting something exactly like this. And this might be the answer to their prayers. You might not know that. I had people that sent me a message on Facebook after me posting some content, and they're going, "what is this thing, this is amazing.

Are you making money here? What's going on here? Can I make money in this?"

Chris: Well, absolutely. And so if people just got that and went and did that and maximized that consistent process, there you go. Even consistently sending personal messages -- I did that, too. Most of my recruiting was sending personal messages to people on Facebook, saying, "hey, are you open to making money blogging?" "Well, what's it about?"

Barbie: Well, that's what I've seen. I've seen people just use the resources that they already have that they did not consider resources before. All of a sudden, it's like when you look at what you already have -- well, that brings you back to the awareness of it.

Chris: When I was talking about how, when you have the awareness, the opportunities seem to be everywhere, where nothing really changed. It's just that your awareness changed, and you were now able to see what's there, which you didn't see before.

Barbie: It's the same thing. So, that's where we see a lot of success, and it's exciting to see, and we're going to get some of these people on as well that didn't -- they started at zero. I have a recruit myself who had no list, zero list.

And started learning blogging and basic, basic SEO. I mean, just basic. Okay. And went and got smart about finding many niches of, just, company reviews and doing a little bit of blogging.

And so what he has exclusively done is blog, and it's ranked. And he has sponsored, like, 12 or 13, 14 people, and he didn't go to his friends or family, and he didn't even go through most of his Facebook and social media yet, and he's just blogged and done some basic SEO, back linking, and it's working. On the Empower Network blog, people go to it and read it, and then they opt in and go watch the video, and they join. And that's without having a funnel in place. That's just from getting traffic to the site.

Chris: Right, right.

Barbie: So it absolutely does work. And when he told me that, I went, "oh, my goodness." And then I started asking Dave and asking other people, "well, are you having the same thing?"

And it turns out this is not the exception. This is the norm, when people are actually just going through the motions and blogging and being smart about it and promoting their content in an easy way.

Chris: And there you go. So it's cool, because a leader, oftentimes, we'll talk about a leader and what makes a leader. And a leader is someone who can get a large amount of people to do something. And the good news is we've created a system that we can get a large amount of people to do something, and it works for them. And that wasn't always the case with everything on the Internet.

Barbie: No, I would say the biggest difference as far as a downline is concerned in the Empower Network, this is the first system I've ever been in where my members are also doing well. I mean, I'm getting pass-ups and pass-up sales. I have never experienced this, ever, not in this way. That's the coolest feeling when you go, "oh, my goodness, who's this?"

"Well, who's this?" I used a program hop in order to find something that would work for my downline, because I don't feel good if my downline isn't able to follow it and duplicate and make money. So I'd hop to another one, and I'd hop to another one.

"Is this one it?" And when Empower came along, I was personally ready for it. So that was more of a personal decision on my part, because I needed it and I wanted it rather than doing it for other people. But still, it got the result that I've been looking for forever.

Chris: Well, I'll tell you, I'm right there with you, because I was personally ready for it, too. And I think I heard that a lot. People were just like, "man, there's nothing like this. This is just the next level. This is the next thing."

We're on the cutting edge. So, I look forward to being able to see you. I know you don't like being seen, I know you don't like being in the limelight too much, Barbie.

But I think we're going to have to get you on stage at some point at an Empower Network event. What do you think about that?

Barbie: I think that I've been spending way too much time in front of the computer and that I need to lose a few pounds. That's what I think.

Chris: That's what I expected. I thought she was going to go, "I've been too much in front of the computer, and I need to get in front of some people in a live event." And then I hear, "I need to lose some weight."

Barbie: No, you can get sedentary. I mean, your brain can work -- I swear, your brain can work and fatigue you. And the physical just has been let go the past couple of years.

Chris: Certainly. So, yeah, absolutely, if I'm going to be up on some stage somewhere, I need to lose a few pounds.

Barbie: So I need to add some daily discipline in that respect, huh? Just transfer it over to another aspect.

Chris: There you go. Well, you and me both. Oh, that's hilarious. That's good. Well, we're still going to see if we can get you on stage, at least for some recognition as well. People with flaws -- so there's one of mine.

Barbie: We all do. We all have flaws.

Chris: So, but I'll tell you what, a lot of people would love to be in the position you're in, in Empower Network, and that's nothing to downplay. So I look forward to seeing you on stage and being able to talk with you again.

And, Barbie, I want to wrap up here, but I definitely want to make room for any last thoughts, last words, and where you see Empower going for you in the future.

Barbie: Based on what you just said, Empower Network is going to be responsible for getting me out from behind my comfort zone and into new zones that are really stretching my limits. That has already been happening, and I see it continuing. Even this phone call was a stretch for me. So to be on a stage, to be talking to a big group of people, that's very scary to me.

But I know that I can do it, and I know that with my continued use of the core, basic beliefs of the Empower Network structure, that I will be able to stretch my limits, and without breaking them, stretch and stretch, so that they become comfortable. And once that becomes comfortable, you guys just keep pushing my buttons. It just keeps happening, so that's the history in two months that has already been created. So I don't expect anything left in the coming years.

Chris: Oh, that's good to know. Well, these Empower Network events are going to be real cool, and we're going to try to do some very creative, cool things. And who knows, you might be walking around, and you might see who you think is David Wood, walking around, and you come up to him and tap him on the back, and it turns out it's somebody else with a wig on, like David Wood.

Barbie: Oh, yeah. And I'd have to lose a little weight before I can pull that one off, but I might just do it on stage for fun, too.

Chris: Oh, absolutely. Go for it. We're going to have some fun with that. But the events, we're really looking forward to having an event somewhere in the U.S. here soon, so that we can get our family together here and bring them all together, because I don't think most people will realize -- when I was in that room, when we had the pre-launch where we all sat around and Dave and Dave had a whiteboard right there, and they started with that beginning and said, "look, this is what we've got, this is what we've put together, and this is where it starts, and you guys are the family right now."

And this is where we begin. And the feeling in there was like -- I've been to a lot of events, Barbie. I've been in a few companies. I've been to the events. I've been to training events.

I've been to places and events where there is a camaraderie, there is a family, and there's definitely some special places out there. Don't get me wrong. And it's one of the reasons why I've stayed in this industry for so long, as well as Dave. But I'll tell you, I never noticed, I never realized, and I never had that same feeling when I was sitting in that room, realizing that I was at the beginning of something really special that was completely going to be different from anything we had ever done before.

Barbie: I agree. And that was a cool feeling. And I just want to be able to show everybody what that feeling's like when we have an event and we're all in the room together and there's thousands of us. And we can all look at each other and realize, "man, this is going to be the coolest thing ever." And when we look around, we don't see people who are breaking their budgets and struggling just to get to an event because they're not making any money and they're putting out everything they can in a monthly budget just to barely maintain. And they're stressed to even get there.

Chris: We're going to be looking around at people who are making money, and we're all looking at each other. We can see it in our eyes that we're all confident and we're not faking it and trying to just wear good clothes and say, "hey, we're here." But when in all reality, they might have just done all they can to keep appearances here and look like they're doing good for their team, to help keep belief. And I could sense that at times in other places. But what I know is that there's so many people all over the place making real money that we're going to look around that stage and we're going to know that just about everybody in that room, they're making money. And they're there because they can be and they want to be. And that's going to be a cool feeling that I can't wait for.

Barbie: So, and it's easy to be.

Chris: Yeah. Well, it's just the next progression of it all.

Barbie: Right.

Chris: It's time for this.

Barbie: I agree. Absolutely.

Chris: So, Barbie, it has been an absolute pleasure. And thank you for taking the time. And I do admire that you did have the courage and the strength to really do this. You stepped up to the plate and you hit the ball out of the park, as far as I'm concerned.

Barbie: Oh, thank you. I hope so. I hope that people listening get -- I've always said that no matter what I listen to on the Empower Network, I've always gotten gems. It doesn't matter who's talking. It doesn't matter whether it's my area or not my area.

Chris: Oh, well, I caught that one. I need to write that one down.

Barbie: And I hope to be that for many, many people.

Chris: Well, I think you already have. And I think you will continue to. And I think this interview will be a big part and a catalyst for that as well.

Barbie: I hope so. All right. Thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate your help and guidance, and that you made this a lot easier for me than it could have been. And really, thank you so much.

Chris: You're welcome. I'm very pleased to have been in your presence for the last couple hours. So I appreciate it, thank you so much. You're very welcome, Barbie.

You have a blessed day. And, we'll see you soon at an Empower Network event.

Barbie: All righty. I look forward to it. Okay. Thank you, Chris.

Chris: You're welcome. Bye, bye. All right, everybody, to the next level. We'll see you later. Till next time. All right. Bye.

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